volume of code I've written that.
I will do a follow-up video with the kind of synchronized
elist mode stuff because that is the point of the talk. Sorry
for talking over you. Please continue.
Sasha C is saying car kill ring.
Oh, yeah, so this question, they're just asking in the
Scratchpad, is there any other GUI stuff I've worked on in
the past? I guess my Tubenix channel, I was doing a bunch of
that, so just common list development, homed around make
Clem. What is my Tubenix channel? If you find a Tubenix
channel and it has a name like Screwtape, That'll
presumably be that. So tube mixes is SDF.org's pure tube.
Nope, not that one.
Sasha's got it here in the IRC. I think it's
screw tape underscore channels slash videos. Yeah. So the
author of Mastodon L, which hopefully lots of us are using
for our mastodoning, I used the name Screwtape as my
username, and I think Wintermute said some kind of
exasperated Emacs theme. You know what? Screw Lisp. Then
Mousebot of Mastodon L rechristened me Screw Lisp. So
sometimes you see my name written one way, and sometimes you
see my name written the other way. I quite like it. A lot of
people thought that I was quitting Emacs when I changed my
name to be mainly Screw Lisp. I love it. That's a great story.
Thank you. It's so great to have a name from somebody else. I
was just thrilled. So thank you, Mousespot. Everyone use
Mousespot's mode. Welcome to Green Guest. I'm with you
there. All my kids want to choose their own names, and I'm
just like, more power to you. I'm very glad that my parents
picked mine for me, and that's one thing I never had to think
about. All right, so do we have to cut short so I can go back to
watching MPV? of the other stuff. We don't have to, but you
are not obligated to sit here one moment more answering our
questions than, you know, but of course, you know, we've
talked a little before, but I, so I have a pile of questions.
You promised to come on the Lispy Gopher show. That's right.
I have so much to say. I could, I could, I could come right on
your show and just talk to you there, but I'm just curious.
Talk to us a little bit about that. Tell us more about the
program. Oh, the Lispy Gopher climate. What do we do? So it's
hosted by the Superdimensional Fortress, SDF.org, who are
a public access Unix mainly. They do their own little radio
thing as well. And so I guess for a few years now, I do a weekly
show every zero hundred hours UTC. We always start off with
kind of climate crisis topics, because that is a climate
crisis topic. But there's a sort of joy in that, because Kent
Pittman, who Kent Pittman you're familiar with from the
Pitt Manual and so forth, writes a kind of climate crisis
haiku, which we kind of lead out with, and we kind of go into
the discussions there. Then obviously the show has- It's a
highlight, not gonna lie. Yeah, yeah, I love it. I try and do
these dramatic readings, but it's often stumble over.
Actually, when Sasha was on, there was an auxiliary poem
that happened, which was pretty interesting, too. What was
I going to say? Then, I mean, the way we got named the Lispy
Gopher Climate was because, broadly speaking, I like to
talk about kind of lisp, and most of my writing for a long time
was on the gopher. Though I accidentally locked myself out
of the gopher recently, so there hasn't been an update there
for a while. I'm kind of around the IRCs and Mastodon quite a
bit now. LISP, I like to use the term LISP inclusively,
basically. Obviously this talk, I was making the point that
I just could go through a 1978 paper written in, and so pre-D
machine inter-LISP, right? And it basically just worked in
modern Emacs LISP. Somebody was pointing out to me, who
pointed out where I was like, I don't know what PUT is in,
in Emacs Lisp, and somebody was saying definitely there's
put in Emacs Lisp. So I'm going to come back to the recording
of this talk, and I'm going to just pinpoint this moment the
next time somebody says, we need to modernize Lisp. I'm
going to say, no, no, no, this is modern Emacs Lisp. You see,
here's people talking about, yeah, I'm just tripping over,
not tripping over, I'm amused by your phrase there, but
that's exactly how I see it too. And I take your point utterly
that, you know, this tradition of Lisp of carrying forward
ideas. And, you know, we, you know, especially in Emacs, it
really is like a brain trust, right? Buckets of knowledge of
how to get some sort of work done, or, you know, how to work
with some kind of code or some kind of data. Yeah, but I had a
kind of, Interesting experience with some great friends of
mine, whom I love dearly. Vidak, if you're watching this,
I'm gossiping about you people over in Australia there.
Where people come to you with really exciting ideas that
seem to be very cutting edge and like, you know, very much the
current talk of the day, like you can hear in other
programming languages, and they're telling you how they
think you might be able to do this in Lisp. And you have to say,
well, you know, if we go back to the late 70s, where the Lisp
community really kind of pioneered this topic already.
Here's how we did it in the late 70s. And there's actually
quite a kind of awkward, just kind of disjunction there. I
mean, that's the thing, right? Where use of Emacs in
particular use of Lisp in general will unravel somebody's
whole big bag of wind that they've built up around why
something has to be rebuilt and well right but that's just a
function you know it's data so we'll probably just think
about that as I don't know sitting in a variable.
Oh, so that whole problem, like the elegance of a solution
can entirely fall away once you fall back to an earlier way of
thinking about it. And then, you know, look at the pieces
you've carried forward the idea of the declarative
language, right? Declaring user experience. Yeah. Once
again, tangentially to, um, to the actual talk we've just
watched, which I will try and follow up on as well. But one
example was After watching me use the Common Lisp loop
facility so much, Kent pointed out to me, hey, you know, why
don't you try using Richard Waters' series iteration
stuff, which was kind of lazy evaluation of series that
Waters did. And so after criticizing Haskell for a long
time, me kind of saying, hey, you know, I don't think this
lazy evaluation is important. then Kent pointed out to me
that, for example, the series, like what is it? AIM 1082 or
something published in 1989 was Lazy Evaluation in LISP
with series. And so I thought, well, once I realized that
this was part of kind of almost classic LISP history to have
lazy evaluation, I adopted series, I kind of had to rethink
my LISP worldview to realize it did already include lazy
evaluation, which I attributed to the late 80s. And then
when I actually read a little bit further, lazy evaluation,
depending on your research group, has been, was kind of
established in the late 70s by Waters again, actually.
Sorry for the anecdote, just kind of the interesting
medley.
Yeah.
Ellis over in the IRC has come up with a good slime about
async. Oh, I see. So yeah,
I guess that would work. I have to try that. OK, so you're just
getting me reading this. They have had a stab at resolving
our asynchronous calls thing more elegantly than me. Left
as an exercise to the listener. It's one of the big virtues of
something like a convention. It'll bring us together with
other people that can kind of see past the boats in our eyes.
Oh yeah, that's easy for me. Yeah, definitely. Hearing
somebody else's kind of thought process from you and from
just the past speaker who was Robin, I think, because this
was in the morning for me, so I just kind of got up and caught
some of Robin. Yeah, it's so great, kind of vicariously
experiencing somebody else's Emacs usage and how it kind of
subtly backs onto their own development flows. Yeah, so I
really appreciate this talk. I'm constantly cribbing from
everyone I meet. And yeah, this talk has been eye-popping,
just watching you casually navigate Emacs, actually.
Yeah, it's cool. Yeah, I enjoyed discovering IELM mode.
That was going to be my other question for people. Are there
any IELM Power users around? I could really go for an
EmacsConf talk on IELM mode. Aha, yes. Very good. Note
taken. Yeah. So, just thoughts for next year? Oh, well, I
kind of want to get back onto the MPV, but thank you so much for
this. You are CMAQ in the IRC, right? I am Corwin, same as you.
So you're Corwin. There's also CMAQ, and I guess there are a
few other people. Sorry that I'm tripping over the
different people here. But you're going to come on the Let's
Be Gopher climate later. Sure, I'm happy to. That sounds
like fun. I always got a million things to talk about me or an
opinion on everything. But of course, my favorite thing to
talk about is just the huge thanks that, you know, sharing
that, the generosity or the, you know, my appreciation for
you and all the other members of the Emacs community that
create talks like this and make the conference and the rest
of the community so rich. Well, yeah, and thank you for your
work. Sasha is just saying over in Lambda that when I say I
want someone to give the talk, this means I'm volunteering
to give the IAM talk. That's what I wrote down. Oh, yeah. I've
been working for Sasha. I mean, helping Sasha with this
conference for years. I know. No, I'm kidding. That would be
cool. I will absolutely go to your IAM talk. I make a lot of use
of that and could do more. Yeah, we're meant to suddenly
stop. But a guest over in Lambda also said, are we going to get
a McClim Lambda Moo client? And I actually had all my kind of
Moo stuff I'd written in Common Lisp, which I was thinking of
just kind of jettisoning. But you're right, I should make
that into a client for Common Lisp. Anyway, I'm going to hang
up so I can keep watching the conference sounds good so we'll
just cut away with the stream throw some music and a
countdown uh back on give us just a second to make that on bbb
and then i'll give you the big thumbs up thank you thank you
recording here we'll get it all posted up uh right next to
your awesome pre-recorded talk
thanks again like it's been fun chatting and uh Yeah,
definitely seeing you around in the conference channel off
off season. So to speak, you're like, you're totally
welcome to use our chat like it to the extent you need to IRC
channel that's been working on great for me. It's fun to fun
to see it.
All right, I'm gonna hang up this thing. All right. Happy day
flowy. Sorry, I mean, screw list. Oh my gosh, I've live
conference brain. Bye bye. All right, later, later.